Excerpt
I interview the founders of Tando to explore how they’re bridging the gap between Bitcoin and M-Pesa in Kenya. Learn how this innovative solution is empowering locals and tourists to seamlessly spend bitcoin while merchants receive Kenyan Shillings instantly. It’s a fascinating look at Bitcoin adoption in action—don’t miss it!
Transcript
Let’s talk about Tando. It’s a great application – it’s actually what I have been waiting for, for years. It’s so fascinating to come here to Kenya, to not have any Kenyan shillings, and be able to spend Bitcoin and pay people here via M-Pesa mobile money. Sabina and Jason, please explain, how did you get the idea to build such a solution? Thank you so much, Anita. So, the idea came to us when we were trying to orange pill people. We are Bitcoiners, so everywhere we go, we want to orange pill everyone. So, we’d go to restaurants or with a cab driver, and we are talking to them about this amazing, new, better money for everyone. And we decided to start tipping them in bitcoin so they could experience it. But the next question would always be, “How can I spend this money?” Because, you know, most people in Kenya live paycheck to paycheck. So, when they get this thing, they’re not going to HODL it for the long term – they want to spend it. And honestly, we didn’t have a great answer to that because most of these people are newbies. You’re not going to tell them, “Go to this exchange, sell your BTC for Kenyan shillings,” and so on and so forth. So, we decided, you know what? Someone needs to create a solution for this. At first, we were skeptical about it; we didn’t want to go through with it. But then, after attending the African Bitcoin Conference, that was the spark that inspired us to do it. And that’s actually where we got the name. So, for those who don’t know, the deity of thunder and lightning in the Ashanti Kingdom is called Tando. And on Tando, we are building with Bitcoin and Lightning. So, it just clicked, and that’s how the idea came by, and we built it. And here we are. So yes. Yes, and you’re completely right. I think it’s a missing link for Bitcoin adoption because, as you say, people here have to spend their Bitcoin because they live paycheck to paycheck. So Jason, maybe you can tell us a little bit about the background of Tando. Like, I am fascinated by how fast my payment in bitcoin is, basically, in an M-Pesa account – a taxi driver’s M-Pesa account. How does this work? Sure. So, we’re fortunate enough that, in Kenya, M-Pesa has very good payment rails. It’s one of the benefits of this country and really leapfrogged them forward in terms of mobile money. And so, we just kind of plug into the M-Pesa rails. Basically, we have a shilling balance, and you give us the till number that you want to pay and the amount. We convert the Bitcoin into shillings and send shillings out the back end so that the merchant doesn’t have to change their whole business process. And by doing that, we can get a lot of people spending bitcoin more often, and then, eventually, businesses will come around and want to accept bitcoin natively. We kind of joke around that hopefully, one day, we go out of business because everyone accepts Bitcoin and you don’t need Tando anymore. Exactly. That’s a great idea to make people aware that they can spend their Bitcoin now via Tando. But then, when the businesses realize, “Oh, this guy is actually paying me in bitcoin,” they will start getting interested in accepting bitcoin themselves. That’s the idea, right? Yes, exactly. Yeah, we want everyone to have bitcoin and accept bitcoin so that we can all spend our bitcoin wherever we go. This kind of shortcuts that process. And the great thing about it is that practically everyone here is using M-Pesa, right? Yes. Can you talk a little bit about M-Pesa – how many people live in Nairobi and Kenya, and how many people use M-Pesa? Oh, so for the ones who use M-Pesa, 98% of Kenyans use M-Pesa. So, it’s like everywhere in the country. And I’m sure you’ve been seeing this when you’re driving around – there are small M-Pesa agents everywhere. Yes. And also, you see the till numbers everywhere. So, you go into a business, even if it’s a small shop on the corner where you buy a banana, you can buy the banana with your old mobile phone just by sending text messages. That’s what mobile money is, basically. But you now made the railway so that everyone can use their bitcoin and pay anyone in the country. And this is really huge, so thank you for that. Thank you. So yes, we’ve built on the M-Pesa payment rails, and this is because it makes the transition to Bitcoin very natural. People are already using these systems – it’s what they use every day, and they’re familiar with it. So, we’re just adding Bitcoin as a powerful, new feature on M-Pesa. And yeah, everyone knows M-Pesa – they use it here. So, it’s going to be very natural, and it doesn’t feel like an alien thing. And like he said, Kenya has the advantage in that most people here are already familiar with the mobile money concept. So, Bitcoin as digital money is not very new to them, and that’s a huge plus for Tando. That’s great. So, how many people live in Kenya? Fifty-four million. Fifty-four million. So, 54 million – or let’s say 52 million, because you said 98% – can now accept Bitcoin in a way. Mm-hmm. And all the tourists who are coming and want to spend their bitcoin can spend it here too, right? That’s fascinating. Bitcoin is now this $2 trillion asset, and you can bring all that money into Kenya and spend it here, right? Yeah, that would be great. Now it’s great for the local economy. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for having us.
